Maybe I'm a bit out of touch

"Logansteno: Bought a VW?" (logansteno)
08/03/2014 at 14:22 • Filed to: None

But when did a 6.7 second 0-60 become "pathetic?"

Quoted from Motor Trend's article on the 320i:

The new 2013 BMW 320i strips the 328i of 60 hp and the result is a 6.7-second 0-60 mph time, meaning you'll reach that benchmark speed only 0.2 second quicker than a 2012 Mercedes-Benz C250 and just half a second quicker than the 2014 Lexus IS 250. Pathetic, right?

They go on to say that most people who buy won't care how fast it gets to 60, which is true. Even to someone who does care (me) that seems pretty damn quick for a car with 180 horsepower and 200 lb-ft of torque.

So am I out of touch with how fast car should be getting to 60, or are automotive journalists just that spoiled with fast cars that anything higher than 6 seconds to 60 is pathetic?

DISCUSSION (85)

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:23

My car takes twice as long and I'm pretty happy with it. I don't think you'd regularly need to be able to accelerate that quickly. Besides isn't that the base model?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell.
08/03/2014 at 14:26

Yeah, least powerful engine we can get over here.

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:27

Maybe he's being sarcastic?

doodon2whls > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:28

Sarcasm, maybe ? It doesn't come through in print that well, but I have to imagine that they were being sarcastic. Going up against other 2.5L competitors and STILL whooping up on them.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Brian Silvestro
08/03/2014 at 14:30

It didn't seem sarcastic when I read it.

SonorousSpeedJoe > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:30

It surprises me, too - to my memory, the more "accessible" cars (think WRX STI, Mustang, etc.) were putting down 0-60 times around 5.0-5.5 seconds back in 2008, and that was considered fast.

I feel like all of those cars suddenly jumped up a tier around the time that the 5th-gen Camaro, 370Z and Mustang GT 5.0 came out, and now 4.2-4.8 seconds is what's considered fast nowadays. Cars like the Corvette which put down times of 4.1 seconds or less are still as awesome as ever.

dogisbadob > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:31

I totally agree. But hey, it's Motor Trend, what do you expect? Too bad that stupid attitudes like that are the reason we don't get the 316d wagon.

My car's 0-60 time is 8.3 and it is more than adequate.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:32

When the Camry was able to do it in under 6.

GeorgeyBoy > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:32

Definitely sarcasm.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > doodon2whls
08/03/2014 at 14:32

I dunno, the way they continued on made it sound like they were serious.

The reality is that many buyers couldn't care less that the 320i won't crack the 6.0-second 60-mph barrier like the more expensive all-wheel-drive Audi A4. They care more about how the car makes them feel, and of course, whether they can afford it.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:33

It's pathetic in the context of the old car versus the new one. Also, the IS250 is a dog and Lexus needs to either get rid of it or stop gimping it with a weak engine to try and sell more expensive faster models. It would be a pretty good car if it had more than a Civic engine in it.

Anyway, BMW chronically underrates their engines. There was an article on the front page last week or so that showed a dyno of the new BMW M4. It made the BMW claimed horsepower and torque - at the wheels, meaning crank horsepower was even greater.

My car does 0-60 in an Acura claimed 6.2 seconds. I feel like that is the sweet spot where anything faster is fast and anything slower is too slow, at least in terms of premium-ish or sporty cars. I'm not expecting a Prius to be under 6.2 seconds, nor am I expecting a Cadillac Escalade or Honda Odyssey to do the same.

Brian Silvestro > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:33

Well then he's just wrong. 6.7 is faster than my "performance" car!

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:34

That seems about right to me... Last time I measured, my Tipo's 2.0 was putting out 185 hp, and it still took a little more than that to get to 60, topping out at 226 kph. Considering the 320i is probably heavier than my car, I don't see how that's so pathetic. I mean, it would be pathetic for the M3/M4, but not for the 320i.

71MGBGT Likes Subarus of Unusual Colors > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:35

Just for reference, a stock 2013 WRX with a 2.5L 4 cylinder will do 0-60 in 4.7 and get around 21MPG. I realize that AWD helps, but still.

SnapUndersteer, Italian Spiderman > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:35

That actually strikes a tone of sarcasm, given the article's context.

I don't think MT is meaning it's pathetic for real

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > GeorgeyBoy
08/03/2014 at 14:35

The way they continued on really makes it seem like they really think that it's a notsogood 0-60 time.

Jedidiah > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:36

I wouldn't say you're out of touch, just more realistic than the journalists. 6 seconds was a performance standard for many, many years for performance european sedans. Regular cars often did 7 or 8 seconds up until very recently. Transmissions have been improving rapidly and that is why the 6 second barrier is being broken more frequently now.

6.7 seconds with 180 hp seems pretty sprightly to me, escpecially when you consider how heavy modern cars have become on average.

I don't make a final judgement about a car until I drive it for myself and form my own opinion; Journalists are normally full of shit.

You will rarely (if ever) replicate the manufacturers listed 0-60 time because it is often an ideal-case scenario. Environmental factors like pavement quality and air temperature/desnity make will always make cars suffer a performance hit.

I saw a video where these two dudes took a Mustang GT and got an average 0-60 time of 6 seconds at sea level and then went up a mountain. They then averaged a 0-60 of 9 secs and reckoned that the air was so much thinner that the car could not run optimally. Everything other car on the mountain suffered a performance penalty too, so they didn't notice the effects until they pulled out a stopwatch and actually measured it.

BigBlock440 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:37

I think it started being considered slow around 2010-2011 timeframe.

BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion > Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies
08/03/2014 at 14:37

With a 180 hp inline 4? Or it was the 250-something V6?

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > All Motor Is Best Motor
08/03/2014 at 14:40

Funny thing is, Motor Trend got the new Escalade ESV to do 0-60 in 6.1 seconds..

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:41

That's sarcasm, bro.

Jordan and the Slowrunner, Boomer Intensifies > BlazinAce - Doctor of Internal Combustion
08/03/2014 at 14:41

V6, but the 4 cylinder is around the mid-6's. The V6 is mid-5's.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
08/03/2014 at 14:42

I really should've quoted more, because it really doesn't seem sarcastic if you read the next few sentences.

Twingo Tamer - About to descend into project car hell. > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:43

I know someone who has a last gen 320d and they rave about how quick it is (not in a boastful way they just have nice things to say if you ask them about it). Maybe our standards are just different.

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:44

I did, still sarcasm

oldirtybootz > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:44

Sometime in the past 10 years. As cars have become quicker in ever single segment, previously acceptable performance numbers have become "pathetic". My car is somewhere around 8 seconds, I believe, which would have been fairly quick 10 years ago but now is unacceptable. I think it's all overrated. My car feels quicker than it is when you're getting on it, and everyone has commented that it feels fast for what it is. I don't know why we all need to be doing sub-6 second 0-60 runs.

When I got into cars, a Ferrari 360 was still one of the best performing cars for the money with a 0-60 around 4 seconds. Now an Alfa 4C is about as quick with just a 4 pot. Hell, a Mustang can match the performance of cars tjat cost upwards of $100k just 10 years ago. The gap in performance from when I got into cars until now is just mind boggling.

Jedidiah > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:44

Good lord.

I would never expect an Escalade to get up an go like that.

You could potentially embarass some people with that.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire
08/03/2014 at 14:45

I took it as serious, I guess I don't pick up on sarcasm well.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:46

*Looks at my own car*

Kinja'd!!!

GeorgeyBoy > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:46

I'm still leaning toward sarcasm especially since it says it's faster than it's closest competition despite being down 60 hp from the 328i. Maybe I need the full context but if this is Lago he always uses sarcastic questions in his reviews.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Jedidiah
08/03/2014 at 14:47

The short wheel base will do it in under 6 seconds.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > All Motor Is Best Motor
08/03/2014 at 14:48

Shorter one will do it in under 6 seconds.

Don't try to race a new Escalade.

All Motor Is Best Motor > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:49

I wanted to add that I do believe that some of the journalists seem to have some unreal expectations on car acceleration. I remember I think it was Carlos Lago from Motor Trend that called the Audi R8 V10's 0-60 of 3.8 seconds "acceptable". I thought to myself "acceptable? That's damn fucking fast!"

duurtlang > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:50

So am I out of touch with how fast car should be getting to 60, or are automotive journalists just that spoiled with fast cars

It's the latter. For those uninterested in straight line acceleration, meaning most people and especially those buying base models, these vehicles already have more power than they're ever going to use the full potential off. How often do you accelerate as quick as you can from 0 to 60 mph? I'm guessing I've done so exactly zero times in my entire life. For casual keeping up with traffic it's far, far more than adequate.

Jedidiah > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:52

I would love to have one just to wipe the smiles off all the ricers around here.

A big, silent escalade blows the doors off of a stanced vtech bro. That's hilarious. They think their 90s econobox is so fast, can you imagine what it would do to their self esteem?

Luke's Dad Sold His 2000TL To Get a Sienna > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:52

V6 Camry does it in 5.7-5.9 seconds.

Vicente Esteve > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:53

What the hell? That is just Motortrend acting like spoiled media. Anywhere else, that is considered at least "Quick". Hell, I dont know if I have never felt a quick car before, but my sisters 2.5 Jetta does 0-60 in much slower time, and I feel its more than enough fast.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > All Motor Is Best Motor
08/03/2014 at 14:54

I'd call that plain delusional.

DanZman > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:56

i think it was somewhere around the time that the FRS/BRZ came out...

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Vicente Esteve
08/03/2014 at 14:57

My mom's car does 0-60 in something like 7.3 seconds, and it's plenty fast.

Reborn Pyrrhic > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 14:59

Whoever penned that scrap of automotive literary idiocy has gotten jaded by driving too many supercars. I sentence the writer to one year probation driving malaise era American cars, starting with a 1984 Corvette.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > DanZman
08/03/2014 at 15:00

I never realized they did their 0-60 run in 6.2 seconds.

Wait, they do their run in 6.2 seconds and people call them slow!?

ly2v8-Brian > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:01

A regular 3series is not supposed to be a rocket ship. It is a perfectly sized family car with excellent driving dynamics.

duurtlang > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 15:01

Mine does it in 9.9, and I never have to use its full potential. If I so choose it can still easily out-accelerate other traffic that isn't trying to street race (speeds below 60 mph). Only on the German Autobahn at speeds that are highly illegal everywhere else passing capability becomes inadequate.

I still wish I'd gotten the V6 though.

Reborn Pyrrhic > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:02

Besides, if you are worrying about 0-60 times why are you buying a lowly 320i? Go for a 335 i or M3 if "high" sprint times bother you.

GhostZ > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:03

5 seconds is the new defacto standard for all sports cars now.

Also, 90% of that is power, traction and launch control nowadays. Doesn't speak much for real world practical speed.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > GhostZ
08/03/2014 at 15:03

Good god. I'd think more like 6 seconds.

DanZman > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:05

YUP! People are crazy. I really think that the twins biggest problem is a lack of competition... people are comparing them to used s2000 and 350z.

GhostZ > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:06

The BRZ is basically the only sports car for sale right now that isn't under 6 seconds. Even a mustang V6 is 5.8, and all of the sports cars over $30,000 are under 5.

Flavien Vidal > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:06

Well, Corvette C4 are "slow" according to most people either... Eventhough from 1985 to 1996 they would do between 5.7 and 4.8s to 60mph... Yet, they are slow-ass cars... Go figure :)

The 320i is a very decent car, not the one I would get but a GREAT commuter.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > DanZman
08/03/2014 at 15:07

That very well could be.

Volvo 850 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:07

Sarcasm rarely works well in text. Either MotorTrend is out of touch or has incompetent editors. Evidence for the latter is strong though. In their first test of the 2013 Ford Escape they wrote in large font on of the the pictures that the Escape would do 30 MPH on the highway!

desertdog5051 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:11

..."They go on to say that most people who buy won't care how fast it gets to 60, which is true."

Who should care? Why anybody who merges onto a freeway should care. Anybody who has to pass a couple of cars tailgating each other at 6 under the limit on a two lane highway.

Volvo 850 > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 15:11

My car does 0-60 in 8.1 and I have no desire to make it faster. I've driven cars with considerably faster 0-60 times that aren't nearly as fun under acceleration though. To me the acceleration times aren't as important as the shape of the power curve and how engaging the engine/transmission is.

Manuél Ferrari > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 15:14

This is why we will both have a Mondial one day. We will enjoy them and everybody else will think we're crazy

Volvo 850 > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:16

I think Car and Driver is even more out of touch when it comes to acceleration times. The way they went on about how slow the 2.0L Mazda CX-5 is, you'd think it would struggle to keep up with traffic. I drove one, it's slow, but the handling, steering, and transmission that makes the most of the limited power still makes it one of the more entertaining cars I've driven this year. The Volvo V60 T5 does 0-60 in 6.2 seconds and they called that slow. Fastness isn't nearly as relative as these magazines think. Sure, a fast car in 1984 isn't fast today, but under 7 seconds is still very quick for getting to 60mph. For me, once you're under 6 seconds for 0-60 a faster time alone doesn't mean more fun for most cars.

Soloburrito > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:27

A tune will put you up in the high 200s. :)

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Soloburrito
08/03/2014 at 15:29

I always thought it'd be stupidly easy to get back up to and past the 328i's power level, considering it's the same engine.

dogisbadob > Manuél Ferrari
08/03/2014 at 15:31

Yup! The Mondial is the most awesome Ferrari ever

Kinja'd!!!

Textured Soy Protein > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 15:50

My BMW does 0-60 in 4.something seconds.

I like it.

Oh what were we talking about?

DipodomysDeserti > Brian Silvestro
08/03/2014 at 15:52

6.7 is slower than my diesel...shit it's the same as my $18k FIAT...

DipodomysDeserti > Jedidiah
08/03/2014 at 16:01

I think the gripe is more about how a $30k+ turbo four should have more than 180hp, especially in a luxury sedan. I've driven the new 320i for a couple weeks. As far as BMWs go, it sucks. The engine sounds like shit compared to the straight six, and the electronic steering is crap compared to the old hydraulic system. This car lacks balls. My diesel Bimmer does 0-60 in 6.0s

Jedidiah > DipodomysDeserti
08/03/2014 at 16:02

That makes sense. I was approaching from a more general standpoint due to my lack of experience with BMWs

YSI-what can brown do for you > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 16:13

When the FRS came out. . .

Manuél Ferrari > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 16:14

I don't know why more people on Oppo don't love them.

V8, affordable (to buy), RWD, mid engine, N/A, gated shifter

What's not to love?

dogisbadob > Manuél Ferrari
08/03/2014 at 16:20

All of that Ferrari fun while still going legal speeds! (at least in the early cars anyway haha)

Vicente Esteve > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 16:21

Thats More than enough! The car my father is buying me does it in 9.8 seconds, and im seriously excited!

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Vicente Esteve
08/03/2014 at 16:26

YOU'VE MADE YOUR CHOICE?

treesmakewater > Jedidiah
08/03/2014 at 16:27

that is the same as my car with 300hp (curse you slush box and vehicle weight)

Soloburrito > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 16:28

the jalop edition 320i (sport suspension + manuel) with a tune is very tempting. Wish I were in the market for a new car.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Soloburrito
08/03/2014 at 16:30

If I was buying a 3-series, it'd be a 320i. It's ideal for what I'd want.

treesmakewater > Volvo 850
08/03/2014 at 16:32

it sure does help in my area though. Most of the roads in my area lead to bodies of water= people going 10-15 under with boats. The passing zones are quite short in my area as well.

Vicente Esteve > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 16:35

I have Sir!

Heres a sneak peek

Kinja'd!!!

Now My car has to actually sell, and we'll be on our way to pick one up.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Vicente Esteve
08/03/2014 at 16:38

Oooh, I know what that is!

I see Oliver didn't put you off.

Manuél Ferrari > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 16:55

Hopefully since most people don't like them their values will never go up. So we'll be able to buy them one day for the same price they are today!

dogisbadob > Manuél Ferrari
08/03/2014 at 17:20

Hey, I've seen 400i's for 4 digits before, maybe Mondials will follow suit!

Manuél Ferrari > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 17:21

No way! 4 digits!

Were they the automatic ones?

dogisbadob > Manuél Ferrari
08/03/2014 at 17:29

Of course they were automatic! :p

That TH400 from a Chevy Suburban probably plays a part in their low resale values, but the good news is that the GM automatic makes an LS swap that much easier :)

Just think of the rage people must've had back then, and to think now Ferraris only come in automatic! The weird thing about that 400 is that they were never sold in the US (by Ferrari themselves), despite the automatic transmission (first time one was available on a Ferrari) and it even met US emissions standards. However, many were brought over here as gray imports.

Hey at least the Mondial has a manual transmission (and a sunroof, too)

Manuél Ferrari > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 17:32

Haha LS swap sounds perfect then

I didn't know they were only brought over using the gray market. Interesting. You'd think the Italian mafia in New Jersey would have bought a ton of them. Ferrari should have officially brought it over.

Yeah the Mondial had the good ol gated shifter. I'm worried that the later cars that are quicker will start going up in value because the good 308s and the 328s have gone up so much recently...

dogisbadob > Manuél Ferrari
08/03/2014 at 17:46

I guess the mafia did bring a good amount of them in, if there are enough of them to be available at low prices.

The 308/328 doesn't get near the hate that the four-seat versions get, so I'm not too worried about that. Besides, you don't need a later car. The Mondial 8 is still good fun :)

Manuél Ferrari > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 17:49

Haha true, they are probably the ones that brought all the cars in!

Which Mondial do you think is the most reliable one?

dogisbadob > Manuél Ferrari
08/03/2014 at 19:23

Probably the 3.2, as the 328 is said to be among the most reliable Ferraris, and the Mondial just followed the 308/328 development. The QV probably isn't too bad, either.

The t is probably the worst.

Manuél Ferrari > dogisbadob
08/03/2014 at 19:26

ok then we need to get the 3.2!!!

Vicente Esteve > Logansteno: Bought a VW?
08/03/2014 at 20:29

Haha, I think it will be a good replacement.

Also, I am currently in Texas and saw a white redline Vue with the body kit. Pretty cool.

Logansteno: Bought a VW? > Vicente Esteve
08/03/2014 at 20:32

I really think it'll be infinitely more reliable than Oliver was, not being a 90s(?) VW product and all.

Why are you in Teeexas?